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The OOC RP Discussion Meme
The OOC RP Discussion Meme
[How To]
1. Discuss anything to do with RP-ing - Plots you want to try out, characters, characterization, head canon/fan theories, game ideas, meme ideas, fic and fanart ideas, AU and crossover ideas, Verse/PSL ideas, etc, etc. Game and comm promotions are fine, too.
2. Comments can be anon or non-anon, it's up to you.
3. Please do not bash, flame or name drop any mun or game in a negative fashion. No wanking, please!
4. Have fun!
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Would anyone like to play and/or plot with me?
A little bit about my version of Sigyn; I'm playing her as a mix of Marvel comics, where she is a decidedly minor character and Norse myth. I'm doing my best not to assume any CR between any characters without asking (including Loki) and I find her devotion in myth to a husband who doesn't feel the same fascinating ... as well as her unfailing courtesy and goodheartedness. She's typically portrayed as a strong character, despite her devotion to her husband and tendency to put his needs before hers. If you don't mind being spoiled a bit for Thor comics, you can read more about her presence there here.
edit: Also, I have a HMD in my journal - anon comments are enabled, screening is off (but can be turned on), IP logging is off. I'd love some crit, too!
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(Anonymous) 2013-05-14 07:16 am (UTC)(link)no subject
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(Anonymous) 2013-05-15 04:12 am (UTC)(link)I'm going to be as gentle as I can because I don't want to discourage you from your character! but there's some stuff here that needs to be addressed; I'm a Norse pagan + a scholar of the myths, for the record.
you have an bad handle of Norse myths if you think Loki doesn't feel the same for Sigyn. Maybe in Marvel comics he's that horrible? but in the myths, Loki is a devoted family man. He cares deeply for his assorted lovers and children, and being bound to the rock with his own son's innards is devastating for him. He would not have been forced to watch the brutal murder of one of his sons if it were not a punishment. He does not force his lovers to be with him - he is passion and vibrance, along with devotion. He doesn't do ANYTHING for no reason, and he is not cruel. He's a god of silliness at times, considered a trickster, but all he does in the myths is necessary and important.
It's also important to note that a lot of people these days don't understand that the society these myths came out of didn't mind sleeping around? So he wasn't cheating on her in their society. Sigyn was faithful to him despite the trouble he got in, but his children and sexual relationships by others wasn't an issue to her because socially at the time it wasn't an issue.
It's commonly misconstrued that Sigyn has some form of battered wife syndrome, but that could not be further from the truth. She is a strong, devoted goddess who knows what's best for her and her family, and if she didn't feel Loki was up to her standards, she would have left. She is not some wilting flower stuck in his harsh grasp; she has a backbone, she has morals and she is a goddess with a high set of standards. She believes in work, hard back-breaking work. She might be highly feminine, but that does not mean she's at all a weak person.
She CHOOSES to stay at his side, against the direct orders of Odin himself to leave Loki to his plight. She CHOOSES to believe in a god that has literally been kicked around by everyone. She CHOOSES Loki, and she doesn't do it because he's holding her there. If Sigyn didn't love and wasn't loved by Loki, she would not have stayed in the cave with him. If Sigyn wasn't adored by him, she would have abandoned him too, along with his family and friends as they literally forced him to watch one of his sons kill the other and then bound him under the earth with the remains.
Sigyn is NOT. WEAK. She is NOT depicted as strong for no reason. She is patience, hard work, temperance and love. She is grieving, devoted, loving and stoic. She is not devoted for no reason - she is not the type. She is the Victory Woman, not the Chained Woman.
Here's some information from a very decent, highly trusted source. (http://grumpylokeanelder.tumblr.com/post/39483159918/question-can-you-tell-us-more-about-angrboda-and)
The Wikipedia article on her (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigyn). Pay close attention to Loki's kennings mentioned: 'husband of Sigyn', 'burden of Sigyn's arms'. She is not considered his burden or his property; in fact, he's almost considered hers.
Here's an article you should read (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/pantheon/2010/05/deity-of-the-month-sigyn/) written by the daughter of a devotee to Sigyn, as well as someone who is well-versed in lore and is a current Northern Pagan.
There might not be a lot by way of mythological base for Sigyn, but she is never weak or helpless in what she does. You might not believe in the gods as a whole, but if you're going to read the myths and base things off of them, you should also look into some essays from the current practitioners. They might have unauthorized personal gnosis involved (UPG), but they keep the myths and gods alive and are good for another look at the goddesses and gods involved. They also tend to be on whole very versed in the myths and aren't just speaking from their personal beliefs.
thanks and I hope you get more luck by way of tags
warning: here there be spoilers.
I just wanted to address a few things: you are 100% correct about everything you wrote and this is completely how I intend to portray Sigyn. She is not a battered woman, she is NOT weak and I dislike how many players (for their own reasons) choose to portray her as a woman chained to Loki's side, unable to exist beyond him. Part of what fascinates me so much about her character is her ability be unconventionally strong; we picture strong women as women who defy gender roles, or women who rise above adversity -- Sigyn is a woman calm in her role as his wife and mother of his children, devoted to her duties as a mother and as a Goddess (correct me if I'm wrong).
However, there is a dichotomy in Marvel comics about the manner of their marriage. Without spoiling too much of the Thor comics for you, Loki and Sigyn are married after Loki spies her from afar and decides he wants her for himself; he disguises himself as her betrothed (after killing him) and only reveals his true face until after the wedding. As in myth, Odin offers her a way out. She chooses to stay with him, honoring the vows she made and Odin appoints her Goddess of Fidelity for her sacrifice.
I think right now I'm struggling with finding a balance between a portrayed devotion to a husband who is not always present in her life (as I understand it - I'm a history major in school - there were certain expectations of husbands in society, regardless of societies normative views on infidelity) and perceived weakness in a pantheon of strong, shield-bearing and sword-wielding women.
I really appreciate the information you gave me, as well as your perspective; it's really, really helpful and I've bookmarked both of those sites - I've already scoured Sigyn's wiki page for ages, but I didn't know of that patheos link. I'd love some more feedback if you could give it! :)
edit: Oops! Regarding Loki & Sigyn, re: their relationship and Loki's feelings on the matter. In Marvel, he is neglectful, to the point of letting her die in Ragnarok. There is little to no canon evidence of him caring for her at all, though she is always there to plead his case for him and support him (much as she is in myth). It is only after her death that you see any emotional reaction on his part in regards to his wife, and he pleads for her to be brought back; I believe he cares for her, deeply, in a more complicated way than just 'love' or 'lust'. I meant to address that, also.
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(Anonymous) 2013-05-15 06:44 am (UTC)(link)I would personally lean more towards the myths and make her an AU version, myself, but there's gotta be a way to balance it harmoniously! Maybe she's less willing to deal with his cruelty as time goes on and she's in love but wants him to change? Maybe you could play her from the end of her time in the comics, have her willing to rejoin him and fight for him but only after a long talk, or something. Maybe she's an AU where Loki acts more like myth!Him and isn't absolutely ridiculous. Idk- I love the movies but the Thor comics tend to get under my skin, haha, so I'm not sure how to help constructively here.
There are some pagans who insist she's almost feminist in her refusal to give up how she prefers to be (feminine, housewifey, quiet but intense) as opposed to being like Freyja or Skaldi or Angrboda or etc etc etc, so maybe you could make her quietly fierce and sort've defend on the strength one can find in such things? Like calmly but firmly rebutt people's reactions to her more feminine preferences or what have you? There are people who learn threadcrafts for her in their practice, to learn patience and the skill one needs for such things and so on and so forth - just food for thought.
I would also suggest writing out some of what you think is going on there to help you pin her down a little better. It's always helped me, writing personalities and histories and snippets of stuff, at least, so I thought I might put it here.
(I only mentioned the infidelity because it seems like most of the people who talk about Sigyn think that's supposed to be a big deal, like he was cheating on her because he hated her or something. It's frustrating to me, haha. "Oh no poor Sigyn was so strong for her cheating husband" argh! Poor Sigyn was an AEsir. /rolls eyes)
I have more links you can read if you're interested on more takes about Sigyn from a pagan point of view! I'm a Lokean myself so I know a few people who work with her.
No problem, glad to help! Hope I'm not being too forward. :)
Also sorry if my talking about the pagan views of her bothers you - I thought it might help with trying to round out your characterization and balance it all.
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(Anonymous) 2013-05-15 06:46 am (UTC)(link)no subject
It's difficult because she's not present in the movies at all; which doesn't mean in MCU that she doesn't exist, but means that she's not important (yet, we don't know if she may appear). The Thor comics can be really difficult to get through (he's ridiculous, face it) and most people aren't canon familiar.
I definitely want to embrace her femininity, though I don't want to go overboard with that or with her "feminist" perspective; one of the things I love about her is how sure she is of herself and who she is, especially regarding her roles, which are more oriented towards traditional gender roles, in a way that doesn't make her oppressed in any way. I like your suggestion of having her firmly rebut people's reactions; there are a lot of female characters who would probably be surprised to meet someone who genuinely enjoys the life she lives.
As you can probably tell, haha, she's very much a work in progress and I've been finding that it's easiest for me to get a feel for a character the more I play for her - I have a word document of things that I'm working on for her like a personality that I've been adding to (a good deal of this entire thread has gone into there) that I'm going to put up in my journal as soon as it reaches any sort of completion.
I'd love more links to read!
And your views don't bother me at all - I'm pagan, but a completely different pantheon, so this is very, very helpful for me! Thank you!